What exactly would a win in Iraq look like?

Bob Krumm, in a post heard round the blog world last week posited that Democrats could win the 2008 election if they would just let Bush ‘win the war in Iraq’. My reaction, like many others, was something to the effect of a party so completely out of power could do very little to ‘let Bush win ‘his’ war’.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot – just exactly what is a ‘win’ in Iraq? There is no traditional control over a certain land mass or any equivalent of the famous 49th parallel in Korea. The cynic might say that a win is what we declare before we get the hell out, but that’s a bit glib.

Considering that only 1 out 80 Iraqi battalions is able to effectively fight without American support (according to the ranking army general in Iraq), do we have to wait until at least 41 of these battalions are ‘ready to stand up’ before we declare ‘victory’? Seems like the next Presidential election might be over by then.

If the neo-con ‘messiah’ Chalubi has anything to do with taking over, I’m not sure if any of my fellow Democrats want anything to do with THAT kind of victory considering that he is also in bed with the Shiite Iranian gang.

So, what is a victory? Americans leaving the Iraqis to their own form of democracy which could lead to a theocracy and low-cost burqas for the ‘little women’?

After we pull out is anything short of a civil war ‘victory’?

In the meantime, would cutting the average American death total to around ‘only’ one a month be considered progress?

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2 Comments

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2 responses to “What exactly would a win in Iraq look like?

  1. I am sorry John it only took me to the 2nd post to strongly disagree. Were you grossly misinformed or were you actually trying to help propogate this scandoulous left wing talking point?

    “Considering that only 1 out 80 Iraqi battalions is able to effectively fight without American support (according to the ranking army general in Iraq)”

    You do realize that those other 79 batalions usually have about a dozen Americn officers and Non Coms advising a couple thousand Iraqis?

    http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/iraq/articles/20051030.aspx

    http://aimpoints.hq.af.mil/display.cfm?id=1043

    Do you ever read sources reporting directly from Iraq and Afghanistan?

    Like Michael Yon who has been living with and going on missions with the Deuce Four battalion (their description)for the last 2 years.

    http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/

    Read this post by Michael:

    http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/2005/08/gates-of-fire.html

    Or Mudville Gazette which posts numerous first hand reports from soliders on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan every day?

    Read Their daily Dawn Patrol.

    http://www.mudvillegazette.com/

    We have a very long fight ahead but I assure you our brave men and women are winning. Please check with milbloggers who are there and let me know if you believe differently.

  2. I don’t expect anyone to agree with me on all (in some cases on any point), so there is nothing to apologize for.

    The so-called-left-wing talking point is a quote directly from the general in response to a question from a senate panel asking how many Iraqi battalions were ready to fight on their own. Many of the Senate supporters of the war were taken aback and disappointed by this piece of information. I didn’t get the quote from some lefty..i got it from the general’s comment.

    I may be misunderstanding what you are saying about the other 79 battalions, but the general’s point at the time was that they were not ready to fight on their own.

    Here is what is so difficult about this war for me (and probably many other people): I know and agree that our military is largely comprised of brave men and women who are doing wonderful things in Iraq, for and with the Iraqi people. Iraq, not unlike many many other countries was led by a ruthless dictator who brooked little opposition.

    Many people in Iraq are better off for now for our presence. So..no pounding or piling on the troops from me, despite the indiscretions of a few.

    I oppose the war for a different reason. I ultimately don’t think it is going to work. Iraq is a cobbled-together country that doesn’t have the national identification of Vietnam (not that i think communism was a great idea).

    I am concerned that at some point we will have to leave Iraq and the whole thing will unravel. Meanwhile thousands and thousands of civilians have been killed because of this war (along with the positive things emanating from our presence).

    Despite the noise from the Bush administration, the chief source of terror did not come from Iraq. As the Bush crowd will admit when preswsed, the 9/11 attackers didn’t come from Iraq.

    My question remains, and I promise you I am not being flippant at all: What constitutes a win in Iraq?

    I have not read all the bloggers you mention, but I certainly have read some, and like I said, there are many wonderful things being done by brave men and women in uniform. On this point, you will get no disagreement from me.

    Macro-wise, the adminstration totally miscalculated the aftermath of the war. They have backed some rather odd horses (Chalabi??) and have entered into contracts with the usual suspects that have resulted in billions of dollars in overruns and missing dollars. That last point is from none other than Pat Buchanan, certainly no lefty pundit.

    I’d love to be wrong..sincerely. I don’t mind disagreeing with friends or family and I don’t see disagreement as personal.

    thanks for taking the time to write.

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